Floor Heating Leak - Help
Hi, Gang:
First off, you are an amazing and helpful resource. So many thanks for the emails we received about our indoor water leak.
I am just sending out one more note...we have not solved our problem. But I am hoping that someone out there may have another suggestion...and at the very least maybe sharing our problem will help you if you ever have the same.
We recently sent an email to the Rummer group about an indoor leak. We were sure it was our radiant heat - but thanks to you guys - we were referred to the Leak Detection group, which came out with all of their equipment and could not find a break in the pipe (thankfully we did not bust through the concrete like one plumber had suggested!).
The water that is still leaking is not warm (it would be warm if it were the heating system) and it is clean/clear (so it is not sewage or drain). There is no pressure change in the system that can be detected.
It has gotten worse, and tomorrow we are having the leak detectors back out and we think it may be a crack in the water supply pipe...? He said these are about 3 feet under the house (how are we going to repair that!!!???).
We are worried because we are behind the pump station. Before we bought the house, there were problems when the pump station went in and I think there was some sort of settlement between a prior owner and the city...just throwing out some ideas. I'm wondering if also the house has "sunk" somewhere, thus causing a break or leak.
Sorry to ramble on and on...I was just wondering if by chance anyone has suggestions or comments or advice! If we do have to repair a pipe that is truly 3 feet under the house, how do we get to it?
Many thanks again!
JS and MS
We had a water leak about 7 years ago. (A small hole had developed over the decades from a crimp in the water pipe.) The water was leaking into our atrium but Advanced Leak Detection found the location of the actual leak, which was in the pantry.
Fixing the problem did involve jack hammering through the concrete.
The water pipe was about 2 feet below the floor, beneath the radiant heat piping. It was very hard to get at and, inevitably, the radiant heat piping was damaged. Both pipes had to be repaired.
So it is possible to fix the water pipe under the house... but tricky!
AR
There is a history in this area of the water pipes between the meter and the house cracking (I have seen three other houses deal with this besides our own).
Ours happened under the concrete in our garage. I was not satisfied with patching, with the thought that if it broke once, HERE what was keeping it from breaking again THERE. My answer was to leave that pipe as it was and have a new pipe entirely laid from the meter to the house, and running it in a new path that did not go beneath the pad.That was in 1995, and we had Kennedy Plumbing do it. Looking at my Quicken records, it looks like the cost at that time was $995.00, but I don't know what all that included.
Good luck!
LK
Hi, Friends:
We walked into our master bedroom today to discover a leak/puddle on the floor. After wiping it up, it reappeared a few times, making us think that our radiant floor heating has a leak. It is clear liquid and the trail is starting at the base of a wall...
I'm wondering if any of you have had experience with this. If you've had a broken pipe or floor heating problem, how did it manifest itself? And, do you know how to find it or repair it?
We fear that we are going to have to tear up our concrete floor and new micro-topping to solve this :/
Thanks for any advice/ideas.
JS and MS
Speaking of insurance, this might be helpful to know: I had an in-floor leak @ 5 years ago, and my insurance not only covered exposing the leak, including employing Advanced Leak Detection to locate it, but also covered the replacement flooring for the entire contiguous area in which the leak occurred. I considered it to be good news that my leak was the result of damage during construction back in 1966. The plastic piping was weakened by having been crimped, and it took all those years for the water to work through the concrete pad to freedom. If you're still in need of a plumber, I could check my files for the name of the plumbing company that exposed the leak and repaired it, as I would highly recommend them. The plumber worked carefully with a hand chisel to expose and repair the leak in just a couple hours. Please respond if you would like more information.
MB
This was much like our experience several years ago (master bedroom leak).....all I have to add is that we contacted our insurance company and found that the homeowner policy (although it DID NOT cover the repair of the leak) DID cover the access to the leak. As ours was also in the middle of the room and also required the jackhammer and cement process it was worth the deductible.
Good Luck!
PS The "access" had to be repeated again as the leak was not contained on the first try. I think they may have damaged another spot with the jackhammer. We suggest that the hole be left open for some time after the repair to insure that it is fixed before cementing over the repair.
AND we did not use the plummer mentioned below .
DL and TL
WELCOME CS. Wish we had met you before we took off. We'll say Hi when we come to visit at Christmas.
We had something similar happen in our living room back in March of 2001. In our case the leak was near the center of the room so we were pretty sure our radiant heat system was leaking. What else could it be, and the wet area was getting bigger and bigger :(
We pulled back the carpet right away to allow it to dry. Through a friend, we found a plumber that was experienced with radiant floor heating and they pretty much took care of everything. They opened up the concrete with a small jackhammer, repaired the leak, and poured new concrete over the repair. It was all done in the same day. It's been working great ever since.
I've also used this plumber for other smaller jobs and I like them.
Ward Bruner Plumbing
9394 SW Tigard
Tigard, OR 97223-5238
(503) 624-4880
Their staff may have changed over the years, but I would definitely talk with Ward to see if it's something they can handle. They've always done good work for us.
Regards,
A
(Earlier Question)
Hello fellow Rummer owners,
I recently had concrete grinding work done in 4 rooms (the utility room on the West side of the house, and the Master and 2 smaller bedrooms on the East side). The floors turned out great, but they have yet to completely dry out in the 6 weeks since the completion of the grinding work. The concrete contractor said this is an anomaly, and that slabs usually dry out within 4 days after finishing the grinding (he has done many Rummers). There is a dark, obviously wet strip of concrete running the entire length of the East side of the house, starting at the exterior wall and extending 6 - 20 inches into the rooms. The dark regions do not feel wet or cause paper to become damp, but water will condense on the underside of plastic placed in these regions. The shape and color of these regions has changed only very slightly in the last month. I am having a difficult time determining the source of the water or what to do about it. There are many possible contributors:
Broken pipe in a wall of the East side center bedroom prior to the beginning of the grinding work which dumped some water on the floor (fixed)
Water was used by the grinding machine during the grinding process
Leaky exterior faucet on the outside of the East side center bedroom (fixed)
Rain water could obviously be an issue this time of year
I suppose it's possible there could be a plumbing leak in the slab (Fresh water pipe, waste water pipe, heating system)?
I have excavated the dirt away from the East side foundation wall down to the 'foot' (~10 inches below the bottom edge of the siding) in an attempt to let things air out. This hasn't resulted in any visible change.
Has anyone had any experience with a similar moisture issue? Who can I hire to investigate and determine the exact nature of the issue?
Thanks,
JW
SW Bonnie Brae Street
Hi, JW:
We have had 4 years of painful moisture issues with our Rummer. We have hired plumbers to jackhammer through our expensive concrete microtopping because we were told it was a leak in the radiant heat (it wasn't). Throughout this process we have hired two highly recommended leak detection contractors (Advanced Leak Detection and American Leak Detection). One of them costs $200 just to come out. The other charges the same but will only charge you if they are convinced they've found the source of the leak. You might google each and ask their charges because I've forgotten now which one charges no matter what. Neither one was convinced where the water was coming from, but one of them spent like 3 hours here and left without charging me which I thought was very kind of them.
Long story short - we have random amounts of water appear as surprises throughout the whole winter. One time our rug in the dining room was soaked and a week later it was dry and has stayed dry.
I have been told and am starting to believe that many of our homes sit on "springs" which go up and down depending on rainfall. I have been given the name of a foundation contractor that digs down and tries to determine if there is a spring but I have been to lazy too get a bid from him or have him out. I will get his name and # for you if you want it.
Sorry this is not that helpful but at least you know you are not crazy! And...by the way...are you related to EW?
Best,
JS
(Another Plumbing Problem)
Hello Rummer Owners,
We had our pipes freeze last night, and are hoping for the best, but in case of the worst, does anyone have a recommendation on a plumber that's familiar with the Rummer houses?
Thank you,
C and JM
SW Cecilia Terrace
You might want to try Modern Plumbing or Canyon Plumbing
A and PK
Stan: First of all, I want to thank you for taking your time and giving me suggestions, as to whom to call the night before Thanksgiving. I'm the one who had the water squirting out of the expansion tank above my heating boiler. I had the company of Stan the Hot Water Man replace the tank on Thanksgiving and that solved the problem!!
JD
First off, you are an amazing and helpful resource. So many thanks for the emails we received about our indoor water leak.
I am just sending out one more note...we have not solved our problem. But I am hoping that someone out there may have another suggestion...and at the very least maybe sharing our problem will help you if you ever have the same.
We recently sent an email to the Rummer group about an indoor leak. We were sure it was our radiant heat - but thanks to you guys - we were referred to the Leak Detection group, which came out with all of their equipment and could not find a break in the pipe (thankfully we did not bust through the concrete like one plumber had suggested!).
The water that is still leaking is not warm (it would be warm if it were the heating system) and it is clean/clear (so it is not sewage or drain). There is no pressure change in the system that can be detected.
It has gotten worse, and tomorrow we are having the leak detectors back out and we think it may be a crack in the water supply pipe...? He said these are about 3 feet under the house (how are we going to repair that!!!???).
We are worried because we are behind the pump station. Before we bought the house, there were problems when the pump station went in and I think there was some sort of settlement between a prior owner and the city...just throwing out some ideas. I'm wondering if also the house has "sunk" somewhere, thus causing a break or leak.
Sorry to ramble on and on...I was just wondering if by chance anyone has suggestions or comments or advice! If we do have to repair a pipe that is truly 3 feet under the house, how do we get to it?
Many thanks again!
JS and MS
We had a water leak about 7 years ago. (A small hole had developed over the decades from a crimp in the water pipe.) The water was leaking into our atrium but Advanced Leak Detection found the location of the actual leak, which was in the pantry.
Fixing the problem did involve jack hammering through the concrete.
The water pipe was about 2 feet below the floor, beneath the radiant heat piping. It was very hard to get at and, inevitably, the radiant heat piping was damaged. Both pipes had to be repaired.
So it is possible to fix the water pipe under the house... but tricky!
AR
There is a history in this area of the water pipes between the meter and the house cracking (I have seen three other houses deal with this besides our own).
Ours happened under the concrete in our garage. I was not satisfied with patching, with the thought that if it broke once, HERE what was keeping it from breaking again THERE. My answer was to leave that pipe as it was and have a new pipe entirely laid from the meter to the house, and running it in a new path that did not go beneath the pad.That was in 1995, and we had Kennedy Plumbing do it. Looking at my Quicken records, it looks like the cost at that time was $995.00, but I don't know what all that included.
Good luck!
LK
Hi, Friends:
We walked into our master bedroom today to discover a leak/puddle on the floor. After wiping it up, it reappeared a few times, making us think that our radiant floor heating has a leak. It is clear liquid and the trail is starting at the base of a wall...
I'm wondering if any of you have had experience with this. If you've had a broken pipe or floor heating problem, how did it manifest itself? And, do you know how to find it or repair it?
We fear that we are going to have to tear up our concrete floor and new micro-topping to solve this :/
Thanks for any advice/ideas.
JS and MS
Speaking of insurance, this might be helpful to know: I had an in-floor leak @ 5 years ago, and my insurance not only covered exposing the leak, including employing Advanced Leak Detection to locate it, but also covered the replacement flooring for the entire contiguous area in which the leak occurred. I considered it to be good news that my leak was the result of damage during construction back in 1966. The plastic piping was weakened by having been crimped, and it took all those years for the water to work through the concrete pad to freedom. If you're still in need of a plumber, I could check my files for the name of the plumbing company that exposed the leak and repaired it, as I would highly recommend them. The plumber worked carefully with a hand chisel to expose and repair the leak in just a couple hours. Please respond if you would like more information.
MB
This was much like our experience several years ago (master bedroom leak).....all I have to add is that we contacted our insurance company and found that the homeowner policy (although it DID NOT cover the repair of the leak) DID cover the access to the leak. As ours was also in the middle of the room and also required the jackhammer and cement process it was worth the deductible.
Good Luck!
PS The "access" had to be repeated again as the leak was not contained on the first try. I think they may have damaged another spot with the jackhammer. We suggest that the hole be left open for some time after the repair to insure that it is fixed before cementing over the repair.
AND we did not use the plummer mentioned below .
DL and TL
WELCOME CS. Wish we had met you before we took off. We'll say Hi when we come to visit at Christmas.
We had something similar happen in our living room back in March of 2001. In our case the leak was near the center of the room so we were pretty sure our radiant heat system was leaking. What else could it be, and the wet area was getting bigger and bigger :(
We pulled back the carpet right away to allow it to dry. Through a friend, we found a plumber that was experienced with radiant floor heating and they pretty much took care of everything. They opened up the concrete with a small jackhammer, repaired the leak, and poured new concrete over the repair. It was all done in the same day. It's been working great ever since.
I've also used this plumber for other smaller jobs and I like them.
Ward Bruner Plumbing
9394 SW Tigard
Tigard, OR 97223-5238
(503) 624-4880
Their staff may have changed over the years, but I would definitely talk with Ward to see if it's something they can handle. They've always done good work for us.
Regards,
A
(Earlier Question)
Hello fellow Rummer owners,
I recently had concrete grinding work done in 4 rooms (the utility room on the West side of the house, and the Master and 2 smaller bedrooms on the East side). The floors turned out great, but they have yet to completely dry out in the 6 weeks since the completion of the grinding work. The concrete contractor said this is an anomaly, and that slabs usually dry out within 4 days after finishing the grinding (he has done many Rummers). There is a dark, obviously wet strip of concrete running the entire length of the East side of the house, starting at the exterior wall and extending 6 - 20 inches into the rooms. The dark regions do not feel wet or cause paper to become damp, but water will condense on the underside of plastic placed in these regions. The shape and color of these regions has changed only very slightly in the last month. I am having a difficult time determining the source of the water or what to do about it. There are many possible contributors:
Broken pipe in a wall of the East side center bedroom prior to the beginning of the grinding work which dumped some water on the floor (fixed)
Water was used by the grinding machine during the grinding process
Leaky exterior faucet on the outside of the East side center bedroom (fixed)
Rain water could obviously be an issue this time of year
I suppose it's possible there could be a plumbing leak in the slab (Fresh water pipe, waste water pipe, heating system)?
I have excavated the dirt away from the East side foundation wall down to the 'foot' (~10 inches below the bottom edge of the siding) in an attempt to let things air out. This hasn't resulted in any visible change.
Has anyone had any experience with a similar moisture issue? Who can I hire to investigate and determine the exact nature of the issue?
Thanks,
JW
SW Bonnie Brae Street
Hi, JW:
We have had 4 years of painful moisture issues with our Rummer. We have hired plumbers to jackhammer through our expensive concrete microtopping because we were told it was a leak in the radiant heat (it wasn't). Throughout this process we have hired two highly recommended leak detection contractors (Advanced Leak Detection and American Leak Detection). One of them costs $200 just to come out. The other charges the same but will only charge you if they are convinced they've found the source of the leak. You might google each and ask their charges because I've forgotten now which one charges no matter what. Neither one was convinced where the water was coming from, but one of them spent like 3 hours here and left without charging me which I thought was very kind of them.
Long story short - we have random amounts of water appear as surprises throughout the whole winter. One time our rug in the dining room was soaked and a week later it was dry and has stayed dry.
I have been told and am starting to believe that many of our homes sit on "springs" which go up and down depending on rainfall. I have been given the name of a foundation contractor that digs down and tries to determine if there is a spring but I have been to lazy too get a bid from him or have him out. I will get his name and # for you if you want it.
Sorry this is not that helpful but at least you know you are not crazy! And...by the way...are you related to EW?
Best,
JS
(Another Plumbing Problem)
Hello Rummer Owners,
We had our pipes freeze last night, and are hoping for the best, but in case of the worst, does anyone have a recommendation on a plumber that's familiar with the Rummer houses?
Thank you,
C and JM
SW Cecilia Terrace
You might want to try Modern Plumbing or Canyon Plumbing
A and PK
Stan: First of all, I want to thank you for taking your time and giving me suggestions, as to whom to call the night before Thanksgiving. I'm the one who had the water squirting out of the expansion tank above my heating boiler. I had the company of Stan the Hot Water Man replace the tank on Thanksgiving and that solved the problem!!
JD